On top of a 3% ATM Foreign Fee charge, I got charged a flat $4.50 Non-Citi ATM Fee as well!! Here's the detail breakdown for withdrawing $1000 RMB from a Standard Chartered ATM in Shenzhen:
NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL 07:06 3016 $ 146.94
NONCITI ATM FEE $ 4.50
FOREIGN FEE 07:06 3016 $ 4.41
Tuesday, November 4, 2008
Monday, November 3, 2008
CapitalOne Platinum Visa Rocks!!
Just got charged the following amount for an $80 HKD box of cookies from HK Disneyland:
November 03, 2008 HONG KONG DISNEYLAND LANTAUISLAND Merchandise $10.32
80/10.32 = 7.75
That makes it a no cost transaction!!!! WOW!
November 03, 2008 HONG KONG DISNEYLAND LANTAUISLAND Merchandise $10.32
80/10.32 = 7.75
That makes it a no cost transaction!!!! WOW!
Friday, October 31, 2008
Just used my Bank ATM card as Mastercard
Just in case you're curious, I just bought tickets to evening Disneyland for their halloween celebration. Here's the details:
$396 HKD for 2 tickets
$52.61 USD '*DEBIT AUTHORIZATION'
It seems like a 3% fee is being charged:
$396 * 1.03= 407.88
407.88 / 7.75 = 52.63
I couldn't use my Capital One Visa as Visa is forcing people to use a PIN on international websites and I haven't received my PIN yet.
$396 HKD for 2 tickets
$52.61 USD '*DEBIT AUTHORIZATION'
It seems like a 3% fee is being charged:
$396 * 1.03= 407.88
407.88 / 7.75 = 52.63
I couldn't use my Capital One Visa as Visa is forcing people to use a PIN on international websites and I haven't received my PIN yet.
Thursday, October 30, 2008
Foreign Fees Revisited
It looks like it takes a while for the international ATM network to split out the foreign fee from the withdrawal amount.
For my previous withdrawal from October 29th, I now see a separate Foreign Fee for my withdrawal of $1000 HKD:
10-29 FOREIGN FEE Oct 29 08:05 3016 $ 3.87
10-29 NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL Oct 29 08:05 3016 $ 129.00
The fee split takes a while (around 2 days)... and once it happens the 3% charge is readily apparent.
For my previous withdrawal from October 29th, I now see a separate Foreign Fee for my withdrawal of $1000 HKD:
10-29 FOREIGN FEE Oct 29 08:05 3016 $ 3.87
10-29 NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL Oct 29 08:05 3016 $ 129.00
The fee split takes a while (around 2 days)... and once it happens the 3% charge is readily apparent.
Wednesday, October 29, 2008
Misc Stuff I bought related to PCCW
Bought a 32" Sharp LCD TV, LC-32BX5H for a special price of $4,380HKD. Part of a special offer when getting NowTV. This is pretty good considering the prices I'm seeing online range from $6,000 to $8,000. Turns out this TV has 32" WXGA (1366 x 768) resolution. Funny though since the TV seems blurry to me... though I don't have HDTV.
Monthly fee for NowTV is $253HKD/month.
Monthly fee for PCCW Mobile 3G - $190HKD/month
PCCW Blackberry service ordered in March. Service commenced April 10th, 2008.
18 month BES contract.
8820 retails for $4,488HKD, but this fee is waived with the 18 month contract.
Prepaid $3000 HKD for the 8820, which gets paid back to me over the course of 18 months by a deduction off my monthly bill.
Here's the prepay repayment schedule over 18 months:
HK $167 x (1st-17th) + HK$ 161 x 1( 18th) = $3000
Blackberry Enterprise Service - $658HKD/month (-$167 or $161 if final month)
1200 min voice w/ Unlimited China Data (Macau not included)
Monthly fee for NowTV is $253HKD/month.
Monthly fee for PCCW Mobile 3G - $190HKD/month
PCCW Blackberry service ordered in March. Service commenced April 10th, 2008.
18 month BES contract.
8820 retails for $4,488HKD, but this fee is waived with the 18 month contract.
Prepaid $3000 HKD for the 8820, which gets paid back to me over the course of 18 months by a deduction off my monthly bill.
Here's the prepay repayment schedule over 18 months:
HK $167 x (1st-17th) + HK$ 161 x 1( 18th) = $3000
Blackberry Enterprise Service - $658HKD/month (-$167 or $161 if final month)
1200 min voice w/ Unlimited China Data (Macau not included)
Blackberry Caveats
The service I have is the unlimited data plan for both Hong Kong and China from PCCW. This does not include Macau.
I was shocked to get a charge of about 3000 HKD (about 400 USD) when I was using my phone in Beijing for around 10 days. It turns out that the plan only supports DATA. Voice is still roaming, which averages to about 1 USD/minute!!
I called about an 'unlimited voice roaming' plan for China, but no such plans exist.
For travelers, best thing to do is to bring 2 phones - one for Blackberry/data service, and a local voice phone using a local prepaid card.
I was shocked to get a charge of about 3000 HKD (about 400 USD) when I was using my phone in Beijing for around 10 days. It turns out that the plan only supports DATA. Voice is still roaming, which averages to about 1 USD/minute!!
I called about an 'unlimited voice roaming' plan for China, but no such plans exist.
For travelers, best thing to do is to bring 2 phones - one for Blackberry/data service, and a local voice phone using a local prepaid card.
Blackberry service in Hong Kong with PCCW
I actually went through a lot of pain and heartache to get Blackberry Enterprise Service in Hong Kong (the service necessary for Corporate Exchange support).
I initially went to one of those PCCW street vendors and got cellular service (complete with 2 year contract) since I was getting cable and internet anyway from PCCW, I thought the bundling made a ton of sense.
It turns out the guy selling me the plan, even though he assured me it would work with a Blackberry, didn't know what he was talking about. Now I have a 3G plan that I don't really use. I lend it to relatives who visit me from out of town... that's about it.
You can't even get PCCW Blackberry Enterprise Service from a store front! You have to call their corporate support number. I ended up meeting a salesperson in a train station and signed the necessary things... I also needed to give a check from a local bank for the necessary prepay amount, and setup autopay against a credit card (thankfully, my US credit card worked).
Anyway, I was able to switch both of my PCCW cell numbers to use my new Capital One credit card by calling a PCCW Blackberry support number my salesperson gave me: 2888-8778. It only rang 2-3 times and a live person picked up! She was only supposed to help with my Blackberry number, but she helped me with my other PCCW as well thankfully.
Now the only things left to change are my cable service, and California fitness...
I initially went to one of those PCCW street vendors and got cellular service (complete with 2 year contract) since I was getting cable and internet anyway from PCCW, I thought the bundling made a ton of sense.
It turns out the guy selling me the plan, even though he assured me it would work with a Blackberry, didn't know what he was talking about. Now I have a 3G plan that I don't really use. I lend it to relatives who visit me from out of town... that's about it.
You can't even get PCCW Blackberry Enterprise Service from a store front! You have to call their corporate support number. I ended up meeting a salesperson in a train station and signed the necessary things... I also needed to give a check from a local bank for the necessary prepay amount, and setup autopay against a credit card (thankfully, my US credit card worked).
Anyway, I was able to switch both of my PCCW cell numbers to use my new Capital One credit card by calling a PCCW Blackberry support number my salesperson gave me: 2888-8778. It only rang 2-3 times and a live person picked up! She was only supposed to help with my Blackberry number, but she helped me with my other PCCW as well thankfully.
Now the only things left to change are my cable service, and California fitness...
Debit Transactions against an ATM Card
I accidently setup my Netvigator Broadband account to debit against my Citibank Mastercard Debit ATM card, instead of my credit card.
I calculated the fees, and it turns out only a 1% Foreign Fee is charged in this scenario. Strange.
I calculated the fees, and it turns out only a 1% Foreign Fee is charged in this scenario. Strange.
I just activated my Capital One card
I went through a lengthy process to finally activate my Capital One credit card that I've had for 6 months. I had to call the 800 number, as well as call a separate fraud line to notify them I'm in Hong Kong. The website at capitalone.com is pretty good. I was able to associate both my checking accounts to it without much hassle.
Now I need to switch over autopay for the following over to my new card:
Now I need to switch over autopay for the following over to my new card:
- California Fitness
- PCCW Mobile (3G account)
- PCCW Mobile (Blackberry account)
- Netvigator Broadband/Cable
More on 'Foreign Fees'
As an experiment, I withdrew money from my local Citibank ATM. Even though it's a Citibank, it's still considered a foreign bank.
Here's the details:
I withdraw 1000 HKD, and that became a $132.87 withdrawal in my checking account, with no separate Foreign Fee.
Calculating the exchange rate, that's 1000/132.87 = 7.53. This is a bad exchange rate. Just a week ago I withdrew the same amount of HKD, and was only charged $129.
Thought of in another way, if I got the same exchange rate as I did a week ago at another bank, I should have been able to get $1030, for my $132.87.
I think some banks embed their fee within the withdrawal amount, other banks separate out their fee as another 'Foreign Fee' line item.
Let's assume that's the case and work backwards. I paid $132.87 to withdraw $1000 HKD. X/132.87 = .03 (assume a 3% charge). X = $3.9861. $132.87 - $3.99 (round up) = 128.88. The actual exchange rate net of Foreign Fees is 1000/128.88 = 7.76, which is much more inline with the current exchange rate.
So yep, I'm still getting charged 3% from withdrawing from this Citibank ATM, even though the charge is hidden in the withdrawal amount.
Here's the details:
I withdraw 1000 HKD, and that became a $132.87 withdrawal in my checking account, with no separate Foreign Fee.
Calculating the exchange rate, that's 1000/132.87 = 7.53. This is a bad exchange rate. Just a week ago I withdrew the same amount of HKD, and was only charged $129.
Thought of in another way, if I got the same exchange rate as I did a week ago at another bank, I should have been able to get $1030, for my $132.87.
I think some banks embed their fee within the withdrawal amount, other banks separate out their fee as another 'Foreign Fee' line item.
Let's assume that's the case and work backwards. I paid $132.87 to withdraw $1000 HKD. X/132.87 = .03 (assume a 3% charge). X = $3.9861. $132.87 - $3.99 (round up) = 128.88. The actual exchange rate net of Foreign Fees is 1000/128.88 = 7.76, which is much more inline with the current exchange rate.
So yep, I'm still getting charged 3% from withdrawing from this Citibank ATM, even though the charge is hidden in the withdrawal amount.
Living Internationally - Things to deal with
I just noticed that my bank raised the fee it charged me for withdrawing at an international ATM. Previously, when I was Citigold it would charge 1% of the amount as a 'Foreign Fee'. Since I've been downgraded to an EZ Checking account, I noticed that I'm now being charged a whopping 3%!. I'm in the process of opening a new account with an online only bank with cheap rates for international withdrawals.
I've been looking at Everbank very hard, and talked with a very helpful support rep at 11PM their time (they have people on the phone 24 hours, and... they are not in India!). They charge a 1% 'Foreign Fee' for international withdrawals, but their $6 monthly refund for ATM withdrawals is only applicable for US ATM withdrawals. It's still a good deal though.
The other thing to think about is credit card fees. Here's the information I got about my Chase United Mileage Plus Visa regarding using my credit card in Hong Kong:
As your credit card company, we value your business and
want you to be completely satisfied with your credit card.
Please note that your account has worldwide acceptance,
and can be used wherever Visa or MasterCard credit cards
are accepted. Please note the following information about
charges made in foreign currencies:
The Bank and Visa International use the following
procedure to convert charge amounts from a foreign
currency to U.S. dollars:
1. The foreign merchant's bank must deliver the record of
each sale to Visa within 45 days of the sale date.
2. Visa converts the sale amount to U.S. dollars. To do
this, they use either a wholesale market rate or, if
applicable, the country's government mandated rate. The
rate used is the one from the day before Visa received the
record of the sale and not the date the sale was made.
3. The Bank then increases the conversion rate by 3%.
Any conversion rate that a merchant quoted to you at the
time of the sale is only an estimate and is subject to
change based on conversion rates at the time of posting.
As you will be living overseas for a few years, we also
recommend that you contact Customer Service prior to your
travel to provide us with your foreign address. We will
update your account so you may use your card overseas.
If you have any further questions, please reply using the
Secure Message Center.
This is actually the same as a 3% surcharge on the total amount (I did the math)... I opened up a Capital One credit card because I heard they had good fees for international usage, so now I have to seriously consider using them instead.
I've been looking at Everbank very hard, and talked with a very helpful support rep at 11PM their time (they have people on the phone 24 hours, and... they are not in India!). They charge a 1% 'Foreign Fee' for international withdrawals, but their $6 monthly refund for ATM withdrawals is only applicable for US ATM withdrawals. It's still a good deal though.
The other thing to think about is credit card fees. Here's the information I got about my Chase United Mileage Plus Visa regarding using my credit card in Hong Kong:
As your credit card company, we value your business and
want you to be completely satisfied with your credit card.
Please note that your account has worldwide acceptance,
and can be used wherever Visa or MasterCard credit cards
are accepted. Please note the following information about
charges made in foreign currencies:
The Bank and Visa International use the following
procedure to convert charge amounts from a foreign
currency to U.S. dollars:
1. The foreign merchant's bank must deliver the record of
each sale to Visa within 45 days of the sale date.
2. Visa converts the sale amount to U.S. dollars. To do
this, they use either a wholesale market rate or, if
applicable, the country's government mandated rate. The
rate used is the one from the day before Visa received the
record of the sale and not the date the sale was made.
3. The Bank then increases the conversion rate by 3%.
Any conversion rate that a merchant quoted to you at the
time of the sale is only an estimate and is subject to
change based on conversion rates at the time of posting.
As you will be living overseas for a few years, we also
recommend that you contact Customer Service prior to your
travel to provide us with your foreign address. We will
update your account so you may use your card overseas.
If you have any further questions, please reply using the
Secure Message Center.
This is actually the same as a 3% surcharge on the total amount (I did the math)... I opened up a Capital One credit card because I heard they had good fees for international usage, so now I have to seriously consider using them instead.
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